Betting on Yourself: from Self-doubt to Best Seller with Poet Jennae Cecelia
Best-selling author and poet, Jennae Cecelia, takes us 'behind-the-scenes' of writing and self-publishing 12 inspiring poetry books. She shares what it took to overcome the self-doubt and fear of judgement that she felt in her senior year of college when she published her first book, Bright Minds Empty Souls, without even telling her creative writing teacher! We discuss the struggle of *not* receiving praise from her closest circle and publishers in the early days, which taught her the power of self-validation and self-belief. She shares the practices that built her confidence, how she finds motivation through impact, the logistics of self-publishing and even how she started selling books without a massive social media following. Tune in to hear how she continues to grow her business and improve her writing by vulnerably sharing her truths.
My Current Obsession: The Artists Way
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Transcript:
00;00;04;17 - 00;00;28;27
Steph
I'm Stephanie Hammond and this is the Fruition podcast. On this show I sit down with passionate people who've brought their dreams to fruition. We'll explore different versions of success and fulfillment and dig in to what was on their mind along the way. But these conversations, I hope we can all expand our sense of possibility. And who knows? Maybe hearing their stories will inspire you to take action on yours.
00;00;29;00 - 00;00;54;21
Steph
Hello. Welcome back. Today we have on best selling author Jennae Cecilia, who's written and self-published 12 books of inspirational poetry and saying her goal is to encourage people to reach their full potential and live their lives filled with positivity and love. And as soon as you read her work, you'll see how successful she's been in that mission. Her voice carries so much optimism and hope.
00;00;54;23 - 00;01;26;21
Steph
So obviously, she's been sought after for public speaking and in those presentations, but also in her poetry. She talks about self-love, self-care, mental health, body positivity. I loved hearing about her writing process and how she actually self publishes these books on her own. But even more interesting and human and relatable is the evolution of her confidence in sharing her work and improving it by being more vulnerable and more truthful.
00;01;26;23 - 00;01;51;00
Steph
This is a really meaty episode, but it feels light, and I think that demonstrates her unique gift and power. On Theme, I want to share resources from massively influential in discovering my own creativity and inner child, building more confidence and understanding myself better. It's called The Artist Way by Julia Cameron. It's a 12 week guide in discovering and recovering your creative self.
00;01;51;05 - 00;02;16;22
Steph
We are all creative. We all have artistic abilities, whether you've ever use them or not. This book is the perfect handhold for peeling back your layers and blocks in a really fun and active way. It's perfect for winter because every week you take yourself on an artistic route, which kind of sounds like a commitment. But I promise you it can be very, very small and it brings so much light to the darker months.
00;02;16;24 - 00;02;40;26
Steph
I highly recommend this book to every single person listening, whether you have any interest in art or not. It's more about you. First, it's iconic. I mean, Martin Scorsese is quoted on the back, but second, it'll just enhance how you show up to anything that you do. And by the way, I link all of these obsessions and recommendations in my Instagram stories, and then I add them to my obsessions.
00;02;40;26 - 00;03;01;13
Steph
Highlight. So if you want to go back and see what I've recommended in the past, you can find them there. My Instagram is just the fruition podcast. I might read this book again and share as I go, so follow along there. So with that, enjoy my conversation with Jenny. Be kind to yourself and pick up one of her books.
00;03;01;13 - 00;03;19;13
Steph
It's such a loving, supportive gift. If a friend is going through something and do it for yourself too. Okay, Bye. Well, today, Jennae Cecelia, welcome to the FRUITION podcast. Thank you so much for being here today.
00;03;19;15 - 00;03;21;08
Jennae
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
00;03;21;11 - 00;03;39;15
Steph
You're a bestselling author of ten poetry books that you've self-published, which is a huge, huge deal. A little bit of background. So where are you from? Where did you grow up? What was your community like here in Minnesota? Did you actually grow up in Minnesota? Is that where you were born and raised?
00;03;39;17 - 00;04;00;14
Jennae
Yep. Minnesota, born and raised. I just moved like opposite sides of the cities, but yeah, Twin Cities based. And so that's kind of like I feel like when most people say they're from Minnesota, usually they're from somewhere in the Twin Cities and then like we have Duluth and things like that. But yes, so I have not ventured very far at all, but I love it here.
00;04;00;14 - 00;04;22;07
Jennae
I feel like it has a lot to offer. And I think, you know, when you think about the arts, usually it's like, oh, L.A. or New York or Chicago. But I do feel like we have such a interesting and vast group of people here that come with so many different backgrounds that it makes every aspect of where I live interesting, especially the arts.
00;04;22;07 - 00;04;32;15
Jennae
And so, yeah, it's just a fun, fun place. I mean, you either love it or you don't, or you've never been here and you're like, Yeah, well, you know, horror does that. You get a lot of snow and it's really cold.
00;04;32;18 - 00;04;54;08
Steph
Do you feel like your community that you grew up in promoted the arts or like your family itself? Is that some are your parents creative? Like did you take special writing classes or go to writing camps when you were a kid? Did they talk about, you know, like imagination or anything like that when you were growing up, or was it just my parents?
00;04;54;08 - 00;05;14;29
Jennae
I don't want to say they're not creative, but I wouldn't say they're like super creative people. They yeah, they are not. But they always promoted like imagination. Like, my dad's biggest thing was always use your imagination. You need to use your imagination. And we couldn't play video games growing up or do any of that stuff. It was just use your imagination.
00;05;15;02 - 00;05;43;20
Jennae
My mom's parents, so my grandma and grandpa are very we're very creative people. My grandmother was a amazing painter. She painted the most beautiful landscapes. She'd paint people. She was extremely talented. She was an oil painter. And my grandpa, her husband was a extremely talented photographer. And he would get like, there's like my mom has so many newspapers from, like the I don't even know if it's the sixties seventies.
00;05;43;20 - 00;06;11;14
Jennae
I'm not sure exactly when when he would have photographs he would take put into the newspaper. He was just like he had a darkroom in their basement. And so my grandparents were extremely creative people. And I think growing up, seeing my grandma be super passionate about a creative project and that wasn't her full time thing by any means, but she did spend so much of her time when she did have downtime painting.
00;06;11;20 - 00;06;33;08
Jennae
Yeah. So I feel like that always inspired me to be more of a creative person being in that environment. And I just yeah, I so I first started out really enjoying art. Art was like my, my big thing. I love drawing, I love painting. I would take every art class I could in high school that was just like my favorite thing.
00;06;33;11 - 00;06;59;25
Jennae
And then probably mid high school, I would say I really started taking writing seriously. Writing was also something I was passionate about. When I was younger. I was again very imaginative, so I'd make up stories all the time and write them out and little like short stories. And so that was something I was really passionate about. And then high school, I started writing just kind of like short quotes that I didn't really realize were poetry.
00;06;59;25 - 00;07;30;08
Jennae
But like now looking back, it was like very poetic writing. That was something that was kind of what it kickstarted for me was I was constantly writing little thoughts in the sides of my notebooks and reading books under my desk. In school. I would get in trouble because I was reading instead of paying attention and science, math, all I, I barely had just gotten by in those subjects like science, but all those things, I was not interested.
00;07;30;11 - 00;07;50;11
Jennae
And it just was like something where I'm like, I would rather be doing something artistic and creative and looking back now, I wish that would have been something that was honored a little bit more by the people around me versus seeing it. I was like, Well, no, like, you need to also be good at math and science and all of these things.
00;07;50;11 - 00;07;53;10
Steph
And you need to push yourself to figure it out. Yeah, yeah.
00;07;53;10 - 00;08;16;28
Jennae
And I feel like I don't have kids, but for my future kids, I would love to just be like, Hey, if you have such a big passion about one specific thing, like run with it and like the rest of it, like, obviously don't bail out or like, just put no effort in, but don't feel bad for putting more of your effort into something you care about.
00;08;17;00 - 00;08;42;21
Steph
And it's okay to just get by in the subjects that aren't for you. You know, like of course, especially in this day and age, I feel like so much has changed in our own generation. Like you had to understand algebra, you know? Well, I don't know if you really did, but, you know, I feel like they made a pretty legit case for why math or science was important in your day to day life once you graduated.
00;08;42;21 - 00;09;03;17
Steph
But everything is on the Internet. Everything is on your phone. Like you really if you if you aren't excelling in that area, like you genuinely might not need it that much. I totally agree with you. There has to be a basic understanding so that you can like get through the world. But I'm curious. We can talk about it later, like running your own business.
00;09;03;17 - 00;09;31;10
Steph
How has the math side of it played into that? Like has that been challenging for you? But we can get to that in a second. I just feel like I totally agree with you. Use your energy where it feels right and that's just that's not encouraged at all. Who around you was it your teachers or was it more so your family that was telling you, okay, you need to kind of step it up in this math and science area and put less effort into your writing and into your art?
00;09;31;13 - 00;09;56;06
Jennae
Yeah, I don't I don't I wouldn't say it was necessarily my parents. It was more so just maybe even just like peers, just the pressure of I felt like I was surrounded by a lot of people doing really well in everything. I was like, Well, I suck at all these things. I'm great at this. But then the thing was, is like they'd also be great at certain things I was great at.
00;09;56;06 - 00;10;22;08
Jennae
So I was like, Well, they're great at drawing, but then they also are really good at these subjects. Like, I should be able to get it together and be able to do well in everything. And I just, I just couldn't I didn't have the focus for it. I'm like such a, a daydreamer. So I'd be in school just like I'm like my brain was constantly that creating stories in my head, like I just could never focus in class.
00;10;22;08 - 00;10;43;25
Jennae
That was something I really, really struggled with. It's something I still struggle with is like staying focused and staying on task. But I do feel like any creative person has that problem because your brain is always just like coming up with ideas and thinking of fun, new things and just inspired by like small little things you see or something that someone says.
00;10;43;25 - 00;11;06;25
Jennae
And so it sends your train of thought kind of spiraling. Yeah, yeah. That's where I don't want to say. Like I feel like my parents recognized that I had different interests and they would just always say, like, just try your best. That was kind of their motto was like, As long as you're trying, we're not going to be like one of those parents hounding you for A's.
00;11;06;27 - 00;11;09;21
Jennae
Yeah. How did you.
00;11;09;24 - 00;11;36;08
Steph
Handle that struggle with comparison with the other kids around you in high school? I mean, it probably didn't land until much after high school like Ava, you know, feelings of resolve around that. But so many of us compare ourselves to, you know, whether it's in career, you know, what other people are doing, how much they're making or lifestyle, how far along they are, what their timeline looks like.
00;11;36;08 - 00;11;38;20
Steph
Or sometimes I look at people and I just don't know.
00;11;38;20 - 00;11;39;22
Jennae
How.
00;11;39;25 - 00;12;01;27
Steph
They handle all of it so much better. Like, you know, their house is clean and they're excelling in their career and their mental health is like, they couldn't be happier. And I'm like, How are you doing all of this? And like and you have a cute outfit on like, what am I missing here? And how can I not just, like, function fully in the way that you are?
00;12;02;05 - 00;12;29;11
Jennae
Yeah, I would say in high school I was so set on just blending in and like, being unique was like, not something I wanted and it wasn't something I think standing out wasn't something I wanted either. And I didn't recognize it then. But now I can look back and see that I wish I would have just gone with more of what was making me stand out and be unique versus trying to blend in with everyone.
00;12;29;11 - 00;13;00;03
Jennae
I feel like I played high school extremely safe because I was just so fearful of standing out, and I think that's what really propelled me when I started writing and becoming an author to then be like, Hey, it is okay to stand out and it's okay to be doing something different. But for the first probably six months of publishing a book and having a book out there, I still had the mindset of, you know, now I'm doing something that makes me stand out from everybody.
00;13;00;03 - 00;13;23;11
Jennae
And I'm worried that every what everyone's saying about the fact that I wrote a book and I'm waiting for people to tell me it's dumb, it's terrible, or Why are you doing that? Or all of these things were going through my mind instead of, Wow, this is such a huge moment in your life to have written a book published that put it out there.
00;13;23;11 - 00;13;45;28
Jennae
Not many people can say that, but instead I was just telling myself all of these things about like why someone's going to make fun of me for it or it just downplaying what was actually going on. And so I do feel like now I have I'm not like that at all. I feel like I've gotten really good at not comparing myself to what other people are doing.
00;13;45;28 - 00;14;17;21
Jennae
And in fact, I try to do things that I don't see people doing or I try to do things that make myself stand out more or make my art stand out more and and less of trying to be what everyone else's being. Because I feel like there's just so many people doing similar things and that's great. But then the people that really take notice and get noticed are the ones that are doing something that just nobody's seen and nobody's really heard of, and nobody's had the ability to just make come to life.
00;14;17;27 - 00;14;40;15
Steph
Yeah, yeah, I love that so much. And your writing style is a little bit unique. Did you ever have pushback from your, like, English teachers in high school or in college at all, or I guess in the publishing process when you were looking for a publisher initially and wanted to work with a publisher, was there pushback based on how you wanted to put your work out into the world?
00;14;40;18 - 00;15;08;02
Jennae
I wouldn't say there was pushback. I would say that I didn't. I did not do a very good job sharing my work prior to just publishing a book. So my high school teachers, they had no idea I want to write a book college. I wasn't studying anything. I was I got a degree in communication arts. And so, I mean, like you could argue I had writing classes, but as far as anything creative, no.
00;15;08;04 - 00;15;34;03
Jennae
So nobody knew. I remember it was my second. Was it my now? It was my final year in college and I had published two books and I didn't even tell people that I had done this. And I had a creative writing class at the time, actually. And it was just kind of funny because the teacher would constantly say things like, Oh, if you ever if you guys ever were to someday find a traditional publisher and want to publish your rear.
00;15;34;04 - 00;15;55;08
Jennae
And she was saying all of these things and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I have two books. And not only do I have two books, but one of them is like a number one bestseller right now on Amazon. Like, I just didn't tell people. Yeah. And so I guess going back to when you said about reaching out to publishers, I, I did reach out only for a brief time and I never actually heard anything.
00;15;55;08 - 00;16;18;05
Jennae
So I guess speaking on the pushback, there wasn't any because there just wasn't no feedback. Yes, there was nothing, just radio silence. So I just pretty much dived in like I just went for it and published my work and I guess allowed the criticism to come after. But there wasn't there wasn't a lot of criticism because I didn't allow it.
00;16;18;05 - 00;16;32;05
Jennae
I just was I just kind of went about it like, I'm not writing books. Like nobody has to know I'm doing this outside of social media. No. And people close to me knew, okay, but yeah, it was it was an interesting time.
00;16;32;09 - 00;16;38;22
Steph
What helped you back from sharing it, you think? Were you just afraid of what people might say?
00;16;38;24 - 00;17;03;01
Jennae
I think so. And I think it was just so new at the time this was going on eight years ago. Now, I want to say even just using Instagram as a way to market yourself was just not it's not what it is today like at all. There was no I remember that when I published my first book. There wasn't even Instagram stories yet like that exact thing.
00;17;03;04 - 00;17;31;17
Jennae
And so just getting on there and promoting my stuff, I remember I went and blocked so many people that knew me personally from seeing. I'm sure there's still People blog today that have no idea, like for no good reason either. They're you blocked again. I just was so fearful of them seeing what I was putting out and to critique, which is just I mean it comes with age I guess not caring anymore.
00;17;31;17 - 00;17;33;25
Jennae
But yeah, I cared a lot.
00;17;33;28 - 00;17;52;22
Steph
And I think also putting yourself out there and realizing that you're safe and telling yourself that you're safe. And I actually think it's totally fair to block people and do it in a way that feels really safe to just think your way into it. Like if you want to take the baby as baby steps towards the goal that you're pursuing.
00;17;52;22 - 00;17;57;21
Steph
And if that means doing it like in complete isolation and hiding yourself entirely.
00;17;57;23 - 00;17;58;12
Jennae
That's okay.
00;17;58;12 - 00;18;18;29
Steph
Because eventually you'll see, okay, I took the first little step, like you'll start opening up more. I think that's a great tactic. Like if you need to block an X or something from from seeing you on Instagram stories, do it. Plenty of people out there in the world who are going to want to see your content if you're scared to share it with the five people in your inner circle, like that's okay.
00;18;19;05 - 00;18;20;27
Steph
I think that's totally fine.
00;18;21;00 - 00;18;39;05
Jennae
And I think that was the biggest thing for me is I was receiving so much positive feedback from people I didn't even know and the people I did allow to know about it. The ones that didn't get blocked just didn't seem to care in the way that I thought they would care or support.
00;18;39;07 - 00;18;40;18
Steph
Or relate to.
00;18;40;20 - 00;19;01;21
Jennae
Or support in the way that I thought they would support. And I was like, This is so confusing. I would think that people who've known me for so long, people who understand me, would be supportive, and instead it was like crickets and kind of judgments in a way which also, again fed into me not wanting to share about it.
00;19;01;23 - 00;19;06;23
Jennae
So that was that made for an interesting time as well. Just trying to figure that out.
00;19;06;25 - 00;19;22;08
Steph
Yeah. Which is a whole challenge. And it's own then dealing with not receiving the validation from the people that you love, that you fully expected that that can be a big setback for a lot of people. And I think that that can actually stop a lot.
00;19;22;08 - 00;19;23;09
Jennae
Of people.
00;19;23;12 - 00;19;35;26
Steph
From sharing and putting themselves out there because they normally your path is to, you know, tell the people that are closest to you first. And if you don't get a big reaction, then you think maybe it's not that great of an idea. I've done that a million times.
00;19;35;28 - 00;20;05;25
Jennae
Yeah, it's it's very hard. And I think at the time I was 20 to a full time college student, I was working full time. Wow. And publishing poetry books. And I think my relatability with my peers at the time became almost nonexistent. Like we would get together. And it was just very different lifestyles going on. Yeah. And I think that also played into a huge part of it.
00;20;05;25 - 00;20;25;10
Jennae
I also think it was just kind of like, you know, this is just a phase. Jen is just doing this for a little bit. This isn't like her full time thing. It's just a hobby or a little like side project, which to be honest, I kind of thought that's what it was at first too. So that's fair to think that.
00;20;25;13 - 00;20;53;14
Jennae
And so it just was it was hard to have to accept that maybe the people you thought were going to support you are not, and therefore you need to get the support from yourself more. So like is this something that you want to do? Is this something you're actually passionate about? Forget what everybody else is saying and all of the the noise going on and just, you know, connect backwards then yourself as if this is something you want.
00;20;53;21 - 00;21;21;29
Steph
It's a great lesson. Yeah, I think it's a really good challenge. I like what you said about not relating to your peers at the time. I think that that's something a lot of people pursuing any sort of dream struggle with at some point, whether they started a business and now they're trying to scale it and grow, that's going to require all of your energy and attention and so all of your focus will be there and you probably won't be a relating to, but even have really time to connect with your peers or your circle.
00;21;21;29 - 00;21;29;28
Steph
So how how did that kind of maybe not resolve itself down the road, but how do you deal with that at the time?
00;21;30;03 - 00;21;47;29
Jennae
Yeah, my husband at the time, her boyfriend at the time, now husband, he was like one of the main people around supporting what I was doing and really encouraging it. He's the one that was basically like, Hey, you have this idea to write a book. Why don't you just do it? And I was like, Okay, I don't know.
00;21;48;02 - 00;22;12;09
Jennae
I don't know, right? Just do that. He found me like my cover artist. Oh my gosh. Like, which then went on and we did seven, I think seven book covers together. And then he's done so many other poets book covers as well. But he was like, my main support system. So I feel like I didn't need as many people supporting me as I thought.
00;22;12;09 - 00;22;43;08
Jennae
I just needed the people. I genuinely cared about and knew I was growing with in life to support me and like that was enough to fuel me to like, just keep this going. Like there there is something here. Who cares what's going on with friends or other whoever or colleagues, family, whatever it is. I just started to put my focus more on the people who really were invested in what I was doing and supporting what I was doing.
00;22;43;08 - 00;23;04;06
Jennae
And I think if I didn't have him supporting me as much as he was, it would have been a lot harder because otherwise it really would have just been myself that understood the whole totality of what he with being an author, and especially at the age I was at, I mean, I feel like I.
00;23;04;06 - 00;23;04;26
Steph
Write.
00;23;04;26 - 00;23;15;10
Jennae
So young doing this and I don't I did not realize that in the moment. And I'm like, whoa, that was really, really young to be starting out, something like that.
00;23;15;12 - 00;23;34;17
Steph
So young. And at a time when it's really easier to be influenced by what's going on around you, like especially at college in that environment, you're surrounded by it 100% of your time, like temptation to go out and also classes that you have to study for. It would be.
00;23;34;20 - 00;23;35;06
Jennae
You must have.
00;23;35;06 - 00;23;44;17
Steph
Had an insanely high level of passion and excitement around this project. And then obviously the support from your absolute gem of a now husband.
00;23;44;20 - 00;23;46;01
Jennae
To.
00;23;46;03 - 00;23;51;19
Steph
Want to sacrifice that in some way to dedicate yourself to this project.
00;23;51;21 - 00;24;27;19
Jennae
Yeah, I remember when I released my second book, Uncaged Wildflower, which is what kickstarted my career and gave me everything I have now. I mean, it really put me on the board. I was in my second to the last semester of college and I remember telling my husband, I don't know if I even want to finish college now because I was so passionate over the last that had been maybe eight months about what I was doing with my writing and where it was going that I started realizing, Do what do I even want to do after college with this degree?
00;24;27;19 - 00;24;52;23
Jennae
I don't really even want to follow this degree now. And it was hard because I was so close to being done that it just felt, yeah, to be like, Well, now I'm just going to be, you know, have all this student loan debt and not even finish it. Really ridiculous. And so I finished college and I went to the classes and I did what I had to do to get the degree.
00;24;52;25 - 00;25;25;26
Jennae
But in my head, I just kept being like, no, like I am pursuing being an author, a writer, a poet, and I'm not going to worry about getting a realistic job and a job that safe, quote unquote safe, because I don't necessarily think that means you're safe just because you have a corporate job as it was. Yeah. So the realization of that was so freeing to not have to go down this route that I don't even think I really wanted to go down.
00;25;25;26 - 00;25;51;12
Jennae
I just thought it's what I had to go down. And because I was the first one in my family and I believe even like my extended family, maybe minus one other person to even go to a four year college and get a degree, it felt like this extra pressure of, well, why aren't you using this degree or why are you going and taking this degree and climbing the corporate ladder and doing all of these things?
00;25;51;14 - 00;26;12;17
Jennae
And that was extremely hard. But I was able to kind of, you know, ignore outside noise once again and just stay focused on my passion and knowing that I had something amazing going on here and it was positively impacting other people's lives. And that's just what I wanted to do.
00;26;12;19 - 00;26;30;21
Steph
Right, Right. So what did you go into college thinking that you would do before discovering and then pursuing this path that you're on now? Because you mentioned earlier that you wanted to write when you were in high school and you didn't talk about it with your high school teachers or your English teachers. Did you want to write a novel at that point?
00;26;30;21 - 00;26;35;12
Steph
Like what was kind of going on in your mind and then going into college? What was the plan?
00;26;35;14 - 00;26;53;00
Jennae
Yeah, I just knew I enjoyed writing. I didn't know. I was just like for fun, I guess at the time because I didn't think you could do anything with writing. Yeah. And so I did do like short little stories or poems or things like that. And then going into college, I had no idea what I wanted to do.
00;26;53;00 - 00;27;12;18
Jennae
I think I changed my major. I don't even know how many times I for a while I thought I was going to be an elementary school teacher because I loved working with kids and I've spent so many years nannying and babysitting. So I thought that would be fun. And then I worked in a school for two years as like a tutor and realized like, this is not at all what I'd want.
00;27;12;18 - 00;27;38;23
Jennae
I love the kids, but it's exhausting environment. And then at one point I think I wanted to be a social worker. So all of my I was noticing there was just a theme of all of my career paths that I wanted to do were just helping people. And I think that I really wanted to positively impact people and and be able to spread spread positivity in their life.
00;27;38;29 - 00;28;02;22
Jennae
And it's just funny because now that is what my job is, but just in a different, a different way. And so I, I went from that to then communications. I think communications was just a safe bet for me. It was just you. I think the counselor kept telling me, You can't go wrong with communication degree. And I was like, Sounds great, sign me up.
00;28;02;22 - 00;28;26;11
Jennae
But the funny part of that is I then that's how my husband and I met was we both changed our degrees at the same time, so ended up in the same class. We just jokingly always say like, Oh, our student loan debt is like the most expensive, like dating app. Like, that's all we got out of. It was meeting each other when I don't know why I picked communications something and the universe was saying go that way.
00;28;26;11 - 00;28;45;28
Jennae
So you can meet this person and then this person will guide you to pursuing being an author. And yeah, so it's just, it's interesting to look back and kind of like piece those things together. Or as Taylor Swift would say, Invisible Strings was all that literally invisible strings?
00;28;46;00 - 00;29;05;03
Steph
Yes, But you can only see it in hindsight. You don't know why you're taking this step while you're taking it, but you have it sounds like you have a really strong level of self trust or even I'm sure that you experienced self-doubt along the way when you were making these decisions and then ultimately deciding to put your work out there.
00;29;05;05 - 00;29;06;12
Jennae
What was what were.
00;29;06;12 - 00;29;28;24
Steph
You saying to yourself? Wow, You were feeling these moments of doubt or maybe wanting to trust yourself more and wanting to take these steps. But I don't know. We're scared and didn't know what was on the other side or felt you felt a little lost. You didn't have a lot of clarity around it. Did you have any anything that you were saying or doing?
00;29;28;24 - 00;29;39;15
Steph
I'm sure that you were writing a lot of poems, but what was your process to kind of keep yourself moving forward, even if you didn't have a lot of clarity around how this was all going to work out?
00;29;39;17 - 00;30;07;20
Jennae
Yeah, I'm like super big on positive affirmations and writing down thoughts and beliefs and wants and desires, and so that's what I would do a lot of the time is just, you know, I would, I think like write constantly. And I remember at one point my husband because he's really into this to had this prompt for me to fill in all the time about like I want to be a best selling author, I want to sell this many books a month, I want to impact this many people.
00;30;07;20 - 00;30;28;19
Jennae
And I would just like do that constantly. And I think just the the routine of doing that daily would start to make it feel like this is a real thing. Like this can happen, I can do this. It doesn't I don't need to experience anything crazy. I don't need to have a big sum of money to do this.
00;30;28;22 - 00;30;52;03
Jennae
I don't need to you know, I don't need to have all of these things to set me up to be successful. It's just a mindset. It's a mindset of I can do it. And if I keep putting in the work and believing in myself in a way that no one else can believe in, then I feel like I can truly get to where I want to go.
00;30;52;06 - 00;31;25;02
Steph
Totally, totally. Lately I've been thinking about this and I think it ties back to focus oftentimes. Like that's why, you know, manifestation works or affirmations work. I think a lot of it is focusing on a specific thing that you want that you're genuinely wanting and desiring. That comes from a really authentic, true place inside of yourself. And then it's like when you have that at the front of your mind all the time, every day you're writing these affirmations down, you're writing down, answering the prompt that your husband was giving you.
00;31;25;04 - 00;31;49;08
Steph
All of a sudden, when you're on your walk later that day, little hints will drop into your mind out of nowhere that are like, Maybe you meet somebody that has self-published or, you know, did it without it costing a ton of money. Like all of a sudden the information will start dropping into these little spaces around you, not in the moment that you're thinking about it or needing the answer ever.
00;31;49;11 - 00;31;51;26
Steph
But is that kind of what you experience?
00;31;51;28 - 00;32;25;03
Jennae
Yeah, I would say so. I just stole. I for so long have spent a lot of my life allowing my mind to go to such negative places and being someone that is more anxious and has anxiety, everything to me for so long is worst case scenario. And I just no longer I mean, I still have moments, but I no longer allow myself to go into these rabbit holes of thinking all of these negative things or thinking, you know, why am I doing well as an author?
00;32;25;03 - 00;32;42;16
Jennae
Or why do people why are people interested in my books? Like I'm just a normal person? I'm not anybody special. Like, I would just constantly say those things to myself. And it became one of the things like I would just realize, like, what good is it doing for me to constantly say, like, why would people read my books?
00;32;42;18 - 00;33;06;09
Jennae
Because then I'm all of a sudden going to my book sales are going to reflect that thought process, totally become less book sales, less people interested in my writing, less people reaching out to me about my writing because I'm starting to create this narrative out into the universe of why me or I don't deserve this and all of these things.
00;33;06;09 - 00;33;20;22
Jennae
And I just realize, no, like, I do deserve this. I put in a lot of work. I put in a lot of effort. I am extremely passionate about it, and that's just kind of what's where my mind has gone from now.
00;33;20;24 - 00;33;23;04
Steph
Totally. So it's an active practice.
00;33;23;06 - 00;33;38;22
Jennae
Yeah. And it's hard. I mean, it's not something that you can just say, No, I could just be like, okay, and I'm going to feel great today and say all these positive things. It's I feel like it's harder to maintain saying positive things about yourself and what you're doing. Absolutely.
00;33;38;24 - 00;34;04;18
Steph
Absolutely. I completely agree. And what I love about your writing and your poetry is that they it's it doesn't feel at times in the past, poetry has felt to me a little elitist, to be totally honest. Like it feels like super well constructed, like there's hidden riddles and meanings that I'm just like, maybe not picking up on. Like, it kind of makes me feel stupid sometimes.
00;34;04;18 - 00;34;25;20
Steph
I don't know if you've ever had that experience, but it can be really dark. Like you can tell that this person is like, tortured and they can produce something really beautiful from that and that's wonderful. But sometimes poetry just feels a little. I don't know. It just feels separate. Like I haven't been able to connect to it super well.
00;34;25;20 - 00;35;00;28
Steph
And what I love about your writing is it is poetry and it's affirmations and it's reflections and it's musings. It's it's not just a straightforward, you know, book of haikus or it doesn't all follow the same rhythm. Like, I can really feel you in it. And that helps me connect to it because I'm talking to you like I feel like I'm getting kind of a pep talk from my actual friend who gets it and who's been there and is is just sharing words with me that are beautifully written, obviously.
00;35;00;28 - 00;35;25;20
Steph
But I can feel you in it so much. And so I it's kind of the first time that I've really felt something like so easily click and resonate. And so I just want to I want to read one of them from your book from Don't Hurry to Tomorrow, which I love, obviously, I got this one because I'm an anxious girl who's struggles to be in the present.
00;35;25;23 - 00;35;43;09
Steph
Okay, okay. So maybe you're afraid that this is all you'll ever be. But I hope you know that there are so many hopeful sunrises and rainbows willing to show you that beauty can come from the dreary est of times. I hope you know that this isn't the end of you. And for you, you have so much yet to come.
00;35;43;15 - 00;35;49;10
Steph
You're so much more than what you've convinced yourself that you are. I love you.
00;35;49;10 - 00;35;52;04
Jennae
Honestly, so much. You.
00;35;52;07 - 00;36;18;11
Steph
It just feels like. Obviously it's beautifully written in poetry, but these are words that I can like, really hold on to in my day to day. It feels like it is a combination of a reflection of your own process of how you have to retrain yourself to focus more so on those positive thoughts. So in the beginning, at the very beginning of the book, you write a note to the reader.
00;36;18;11 - 00;36;24;20
Steph
You say, Dear reader, do you live in the past or the future more than the present moment? Yes.
00;36;24;23 - 00;36;25;08
Jennae
For a long.
00;36;25;08 - 00;36;44;09
Steph
Time I did too. I dwell on the past and worried about the future. I wouldn't take notice of the little moments worry filled my body more than calmness ever did. So I started meditating on the phrase Don't hurry to tomorrow, which is where we are now. I hope this book brings you peace and calmness on your journey to live a little more in the present.
00;36;44;11 - 00;37;08;17
Steph
And I again love your words they just they feel so soothing to me. And I really again feel that connection. But it is just these like gentle little hints and reminders and musings almost that we're kind of all in this together, that it is hard, but just focus on the little things like start small and there's always something positive or bright to look at.
00;37;08;17 - 00;37;21;22
Steph
So obviously you just shared with us kind of how you developed that in your own brain to focus on those things through your affirmations and through writing beautiful work like this. I'm curious.
00;37;21;25 - 00;37;24;18
Jennae
How you.
00;37;24;20 - 00;37;43;20
Steph
Put that into writing. Like how do you translate into your work? What's your process? Do you have a thought and then jotted down? Do you have to kind of like work through an emotion yourself? And then this your resolution of it? Like how does that really how did these come out of your day to day life?
00;37;43;23 - 00;38;16;29
Jennae
Good question. I'm like when people always ask me that, they're like, do you just sit down every day and like, write out your poetry? I'm like, I wish I wish like, writing poetry was as easy as like, answering an email or I'm like, I wish it would come out of me like that. Yeah, it is. It has been something that I've had to exercise so much over the years and my ability to write poetry quicker, more efficiently in a way that I enjoy writing more has taken so much time.
00;38;17;01 - 00;38;37;29
Jennae
I think that one of the biggest things is I try to write for myself and not necessarily for what other people need to hear, but it always ends up being what other people also need to hear. Most of my poems in especially in Don't Hurry To Tomorrow, which is what you just read from, are just so directed at me.
00;38;37;29 - 00;38;56;28
Jennae
I'm like, Come on, girl, get it together. Let's go. Like, what do you need to remember that this what do you need to remember? Certain things or phrases or what do you like? What do you need throughout your daily life? And it's just always so interesting to me. Even the most specific of poems. How many people reach out?
00;38;56;29 - 00;39;17;16
Jennae
Like, I related so much to this poem, and here's the reasons why. I'm like, Whoa. I wasn't even in the headspace of thinking that that's what that poem could relate to. But somehow they've been able to take what's going on in their life and then read that poem and combine it together. And I just think that's so beautiful that that helps them.
00;39;17;16 - 00;39;39;07
Jennae
Even though what I maybe was writing about was completely unrelated for what they took it as. And so I just that always fuels me to like keep writing more and keep writing from an authentic place and not from a place of, well, what to I think is trendy, or what do I think will do well on the Internet?
00;39;39;09 - 00;40;06;12
Jennae
And, you know, there are times where I do think about that, like there is moments where I'm, you know, what would do well on social media, what wouldn't do well or what would people enjoy? Because I feel like the main thing I've noticed is people don't necessarily have an appreciation on the Internet for long format poetry. Everything is just so fast paced like quick, quick, quick, like they don't want that sentence or two.
00;40;06;15 - 00;40;29;21
Jennae
So that has changed how I share my poetry on the internet. But it hasn't changed how I write my poetry. I feel like people don't realize how many of my books have longer poems in them because I don't always share those poems or illness. Share a piece of the poem because people on the internet tend to not want to read something that's long.
00;40;29;23 - 00;40;51;12
Jennae
Yeah, it's like on their screen for longer than 10 seconds. It's like, got to get to the next to the next thing. Even just like with Tik Tok and stuff, I've really been trying to figure out how to share my poetry on there in a different way, and I just stumbled the other day on a video where the guy said, Most people don't stay on a video longer than 3 seconds, so you have to win them over within 3 seconds.
00;40;51;12 - 00;41;13;25
Jennae
And I went and looked at the analytics of my post. I'm like, Oh my gosh, Like, people are dropping out after 2 seconds. I'm like, What do I like? Do I just need to post one word? Go like, here's your here's your word. But so that's also fueled me to not write for those instances because I just know that is something I just can't achieve.
00;41;13;25 - 00;41;33;11
Jennae
I can't write poetry anymore than it already is. But going back to what you were saying about kind of like the darker poetry or the poetry that you don't quite understand, that has always been something that even I struggle with. I feel like for me there's plenty of poetry that I can read. I'm like, I have no clue what this means.
00;41;33;11 - 00;41;54;22
Jennae
Like it is over my head and, beyond. And then as a poet, I feel dumb because people are like, Well, don't you know this poem by this person? And it's like an iconic piece that, like, you should know. And I'm like, I don't even know what that means. Truly, I don't know what that means. Yeah. And I always wanted to write things that for the most part, when someone reads it, they can understand.
00;41;54;27 - 00;42;21;13
Steph
What I love is your writing is so true to you. Like, like you said, you're not trying to write for anybody. These are things that are coming up in your dealing with in your own life. And so I'm curious to hear too, how have you felt comfortable sharing that so openly? And I mean, you've written ten poetry books now, so you've obviously.
00;42;21;20 - 00;42;49;10
Jennae
Put it all out there. Yeah, I it's been it's been a journey for sure. I feel like a lot of my poetry, as much as there is a ton about me personally, there's also some that I would say feel really personal but aren't necessarily about me specifically within my family and have a certain interpretation. I'm like, Well, this is kind of fictional or made up, which is true.
00;42;49;10 - 00;43;10;00
Jennae
Some of it, like a lot of it there's scenarios where it's like stories from people like I hear at the coffee shop and it has nothing to do with me, but like they'll say a line and I'm like, Well, I have to like, run with this. Someone just said the one line, they all they said was, I've had this empty shampoo bottle in my shower forever and I still haven't thrown it away.
00;43;10;00 - 00;43;38;15
Jennae
And it was referring to their mental health and their state of their mental health. And I just remember hearing that line and I instantly sat down and was like, I need to write a poem about this. And it has become one of my most ones. I remember the first time I ever shared it, like blew up on Instagram, and I just love that poem because every time someone shares it and they have a connection to it, I just think of this girl and I have no idea who this girl is.
00;43;38;15 - 00;44;04;05
Jennae
It just this random girl who is talking about her empty shampoo bottles? I'm like, Wow, like that. That's just like where I, I get excited. Like, I love moments like those where I can write from a place of being inspired by other people and their stories and things going on. And they have no idea that I even took something so small in their life and made some piece of art out of it.
00;44;04;12 - 00;44;29;04
Jennae
Yeah, but it is hard when the poem excuse me, when the poem is about me to then share it and wonder what people are going to think or how they are going to interpret it. It's been challenging, but as the years have gone on and I've written book after book, it's gotten a lot easier to not have to worry so much about that.
00;44;29;06 - 00;45;05;21
Jennae
I think in the past that would have set me back a lot from writing true, authentic thoughts. I would have just been writing strictly from a place of safety, and I recently not allowed myself to do that. I wrote a book in 2021, no 2022 called Healing for No. One Me And it is probably some of my most raw and honest writing, and it comes from a place of having to heal from certain things going on in my life that felt out of control.
00;45;05;21 - 00;45;25;03
Jennae
And I wrote this book. I'm not even kidding. I think the whole thing came together within like two months, Like I made the cover. I had the title. Like it all came to me in like a one night moment where I was like, I was actually supposed I was supposed to be releasing a different book, and I just totally scratched the book.
00;45;25;03 - 00;45;46;23
Jennae
I will never forget my cover artist sent me the cover art and I said it was for something completely different. I just was like, I'm actually going a different route. And I was the first cover I designed by myself. The title, the whole book. I had it out within just a couple of months was my most raw writing, and it's now my like my top selling book right now.
00;45;46;24 - 00;46;11;09
Jennae
Like over it's been selling better than any of my other books for over a year now. And it's just so wild to me because people keep messaging me, saying how raw and authentic and how much they relate to it. And that book is what continues to inspire me to write from a true experience in my life, because I've seen what being honest and vulnerable can do.
00;46;11;09 - 00;46;17;04
Jennae
And so that book is just like Forever will probably be one of my favorite books just for that fact.
00;46;17;11 - 00;46;20;10
Steph
Yeah. Do you have a favorite poem from that book?
00;46;20;12 - 00;46;23;12
Jennae
Yeah. Let me let me pull one up quick.
00;46;23;15 - 00;46;57;16
Steph
I totally feel bad though, but like, when you start to intellectualize your feelings or your process or what you're going through and create and force, create something from that place, that's where the disconnection comes in. Like you keep it simple. It's just your genuine struggle. Like that's a perfect thing. The shampoo bottle is such a perfect example because immediately everyone knows what that feels like and it's a simple little thing that you would never think of on your own.
00;46;57;18 - 00;47;17;27
Steph
It would never really stand out to you as something that you could create art from. And that's the whole point of it is like it's so human, it's so, you know, like scary or dark or whatever it might be that like, you would never think that that's something that should be shared. Like that's what you're actually scared of sharing.
00;47;17;27 - 00;47;28;18
Steph
That's where you might feel shame. That's probably why she sent it to her friend, because she's feeling shame around not being able to throw away a shampoo bottle. Such a simple act. But like we've all been there.
00;47;28;19 - 00;47;29;26
Jennae
And we all.
00;47;29;26 - 00;47;30;26
Steph
Get that.
00;47;30;29 - 00;47;55;12
Jennae
100%. Okay, so I pulled up one. This is one of my favorites. It says, I am not the same person I was last year or the year before. And while that might seem scary because people stop recognizing me for who I once was, I remember that who I am changing into now is someone I always dreamed of. I will love that.
00;47;55;14 - 00;48;30;13
Jennae
Wow. I love that. Thanks. I feel like going back to what you said earlier, even in my adult life, I am still trying to navigate friendships and growth and allowing myself to change in a positive way and be okay with people not coming along with that. Don't align with me or don't align with the they don't they don't know the new version of me and they're not willing to know that version or don't have interest.
00;48;30;16 - 00;48;45;27
Jennae
Or in the past, that would have made me be like, Oh, well, now we don't. We are misaligned and like, I want to stay friends, so therefore I need to stay where it's safe. And now I'm like, No, it's okay to be different and it's okay for people to be like, Wow, I don't even know who you are right now.
00;48;46;00 - 00;48;55;01
Jennae
And I feel that's usually with like in a negative context to say, I don't know who you are anymore, but I want people to know that that can be a positive thing.
00;48;55;04 - 00;48;57;09
Steph
No higher compliment.
00;48;57;11 - 00;48;59;28
Jennae
I'm like, Thank you. Thank you so much.
00;49;00;02 - 00;49;01;08
Steph
Growing so far.
00;49;01;08 - 00;49;04;05
Jennae
Yes. I hope I'm not the same as ten years ago.
00;49;04;05 - 00;49;22;06
Steph
I know, I know. I love that. I'm curious, though. That's probably something that's an ongoing struggle. I know a lot of the things that I deal with I think I might have resolved at one point. And then it comes up in another area of my life and I'm like, Oh, here's another layer I need to peel back. Oh, that connects to that thing that I thought I had already kind of squashed.
00;49;22;09 - 00;49;46;29
Steph
Do you ever do you wait to write about something until it's like fully resolved or do you are you free and open to write about it in the moment? And is there ever a piece of you that's like, I wrote this poem that ended on a positive note that has a feeling of hope to it, or positivity or optimism, but maybe it's not fully resolved for you.
00;49;47;00 - 00;49;57;24
Steph
Like, have you ever dealt with that emotion of like, I'm putting this out there as if maybe I've faced it for overcome it, but I'm still working with it?
00;49;57;27 - 00;50;16;07
Jennae
Yeah, my book Don't Hurry to Tomorrow about being present and living in the moment. It is something I have not I'm not great at. I try my best and I feel like that's why I really want to write the book. Was reminders for myself to be more present and live in the moment. So it is something that I am still working on.
00;50;16;07 - 00;50;38;18
Jennae
I feel like I'll always be working on. I don't think there's ever a moment in my life I'm like, Yep, I'm always living in the present moment and I'm never thinking of the past or the future. I don't even know that's possible. But I do think reminding myself in little moments I enjoy this moment more. Pay attention in this moment more, or put your phone down during these situations.
00;50;38;20 - 00;51;07;01
Jennae
I one of the poems I remember from that book and I don't know, I I'm not great I don't remember all my poems by heart. I don't know how some people think, but one of them specifically talks about saving things to your Pinterest board that you want to do, like you want to bake this or you want to go see this place where you want to wear this outfit or do this experience or all these things, but you never actually do them, but you just continue to like, consume the idea of doing these things and being these things.
00;51;07;01 - 00;51;46;08
Jennae
And I've really tried to actually make things happen. Now. I've really tried to take what I have on my Pinterest boards and be like, Hey, these are clearly things you have interest in. What does that look like and how can you make that happen in your daily life? And I feel like that for me has brought me to be a more present person when I'm doing those things like baking or cooking or recently I have gotten back into painting and taking time where even if it's just like I think right now my goal is just 30 minutes of painting a week just to like say, I've done it and I'm getting down there and doing
00;51;46;08 - 00;52;10;28
Jennae
something creative outside of just scrolling on my phone, little moments like that. But again, it's just so such a work in progress that I don't I feel like I don't want anyone that's ever reading my books to think that I have it all figured out. I feel like all my titles are taught like I have one. I am More than My Nightmares, which the book talks all about, like anxiety and like that's still something that I struggle with or the sun will rise or so will we.
00;52;10;28 - 00;52;34;00
Jennae
It's like a very positive, like everything is going to be great and better. But at the same time, I do know that these are like the ebbs and flows of life. Yeah, things aren't great and things aren't seem like they're going to get better. But just having these little reminders for myself that I got back on and then also know that other people can look at it.
00;52;34;00 - 00;52;36;20
Jennae
Yeah, yeah. It means a lot to me.
00;52;36;20 - 00;52;42;00
Steph
It's actually brilliant on your part because if you're like, I'm not present today, go and open up your own book.
00;52;42;02 - 00;52;45;08
Jennae
5 minutes. It's day.
00;52;45;10 - 00;52;49;19
Steph
Let alone wanxiang today. Pick up here. I'll give you some photo reminder.
00;52;49;22 - 00;52;56;29
Jennae
And it's true. It's really true. Though I feel like that has been such a blessing for me.
00;52;57;02 - 00;53;22;15
Steph
Yeah, Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about your business of how you supported yourself through this career and built up a following and decided to self-publish. I you mentioned a few minutes ago, but you didn't receive any responses from publishers there. That didn't stop you, though Obviously, there might have been some feelings of doubt maybe that came with that or questioning like, is my is my writing any good?
00;53;22;15 - 00;53;30;27
Steph
I don't know. What was the thought process there and how did you actually make self-publishing happen? Like logistically.
00;53;30;29 - 00;53;58;07
Jennae
It is it was hard at first. It was definitely a struggle I didn't even know much about the traditional publishing route. I tried reaching out to like a few agents and a few publishers and just wasn't going anywhere, and I was getting extremely antsy. I didn't want to keep waiting to hear a response. And so I remember there was a poet at the time who had self-published a book, and I was just like, Well, how did they do it?
00;53;58;07 - 00;54;22;11
Jennae
And at the bottom of every Amazon page, it'll tell you who the publisher of the book is. So I was looking on there to see what she used or what it set in place of a publisher, because I knew she didn't have one. And it said something like Create Space, independent publishing or something like that. Looked that up and I was you could basically go on there, create Space.com now bought out by Amazon.
00;54;22;11 - 00;54;50;07
Jennae
So it's called Amazon KDP or just so nobody goes like Googling it before. Yeah, that part. But yeah, so I went in and just saw that you had to upload a file for the book, you had to upload a file for the cover and then once you hit submit and it's approved, it would be up on Amazon and White Glove and then from there they handled Amazon, handled all the shipping and everything.
00;54;50;07 - 00;54;53;02
Jennae
So I was like, this seems like a no brainer.
00;54;53;03 - 00;54;57;09
Steph
So they put it into a book for like they bind the book.
00;54;57;12 - 00;55;21;10
Jennae
Guess what? Yeah. So I don't deal with any shipping or anything like that. I couldn't even imagine that that would be a lot. So they take the book and they are sorry. They take the files and then every time someone orders a book from them, it's print on demand. So it gets printed and sent to their house. But it's it's printed in pretty quick because it's included in with Amazon Prime.
00;55;21;10 - 00;55;39;11
Jennae
So people get it within like it's not like takes months and months and months or anything. So yeah it's print on demand system and I was like, this seems like a no brainer. You don't have to pay anything to, to Amazon or to the self-publishing service at the time there was no upfront costs. It was just whatever you had to pay to get.
00;55;39;11 - 00;55;57;10
Jennae
Like, for instance, like I hired my book designer, so I paid for that or I hired editors, so I paid for that. But the service as a whole, there's not like a monthly fee or anything. All they do is they take a percentage of the books like what it costs to print, right?
00;55;57;12 - 00;56;00;24
Steph
And that a big percentage. You don't have to tell us of that. No.
00;56;00;26 - 00;56;22;21
Jennae
To be fair, not really, because, I mean, I'm very transparent, so I'll say exactly what it is so people know if I have a book like one of mine is listed at $5.50. Yeah. They take I don't know what the percentages, but I want to say I make close to $2 if not a little bit more. Okay. Of that $5.50.
00;56;22;21 - 00;56;50;19
Jennae
However To put it in perspective, if I was to traditionally publish my book and my book was $20, which is usually what a traditional publisher would want a poetry book at, about what, 15 to $20, I would still probably get that same $2 because now then it's taken by them is it is much higher because you have to think you're paying for all of these other people that are a part of this book process.
00;56;50;19 - 00;57;10;24
Jennae
So there's a lot there is a lot of money taken out when you do traditionally publish. So when I tell people like, oh, I only get not only when I get $2 of my $5 and 50 cent book, they're like, Whoa, that's not a lot. Like, where's all the rest going? It's like, Well, to be fair, like there's paper involved and ink and everything and they're printing the book.
00;57;10;26 - 00;57;19;07
Jennae
So I kind of see it as like a fair deal. Oh, totally. They that I don't get the whole percentage. You don't have to.
00;57;19;07 - 00;57;33;18
Steph
Deal with any of the operations that go into it either. Like you don't have to figure out how to ship to the right person. And I'm sure that they manage all of the like invoicing for you and like your end of year financials.
00;57;33;21 - 00;57;53;28
Jennae
Yeah. So it's all it's all set up in a way that you, you get sense. I think it's like a 1099. Yeah. What it is but I mean the taxes are not taken out so that is something to factor in. If you're listening and you are dealing, please, please. Like any other business, you have to pay your own taxes.
00;57;54;00 - 00;58;12;20
Jennae
Then this entrepreneurial world, that's like that's what you do. You pay taxes. You don't get tax money back. Right? Right. They don't. So they don't anything like that. Because if you think about it, too, we I'm getting people that are over in like India buying my book and Asia and Europe, all these places. So it would be kind of a little.
00;58;12;20 - 00;58;12;29
Steph
Bit a.
00;58;12;29 - 00;58;17;15
Jennae
Lot for them to figure out taking taxes out on the butt.
00;58;17;16 - 00;58;24;03
Steph
But also a headache for you to figure out how to get it to that person and then like a variable shipping costs, etc., etc.. Like you don't have to deal with.
00;58;24;07 - 00;58;46;25
Jennae
Any of that. No. Which is all the same. Goes for like I think you can buy my book or not think you can buy my book through Barnes and Noble dot com and other websites and it's the same method. It's just print on demand. So they allow you to be linked to other book distributors as well. It's not just Amazon, but typically when people go to buy a book, they go to Amazon.
00;58;46;29 - 00;59;02;04
Steph
Right? Right. And what you did have to do is build up enough of a following to generate sales realistically. So what did that process look like for you? Because you started in college back when there wasn't much social media. I was literally my insert.
00;59;02;06 - 00;59;02;19
Jennae
From when.
00;59;02;19 - 00;59;19;18
Steph
I was in college. I graduated in 2014 and so I'm a little bit older than you, but like there was not a lot happening in the Instagram world. Definitely not influencing, definitely not generating sales or leads or running businesses like nothing like what we have today.
00;59;19;18 - 00;59;22;05
Jennae
So how did you build.
00;59;22;05 - 00;59;28;07
Steph
A following and make that your sales funnel? Basically?
00;59;28;09 - 00;59;59;04
Jennae
Yeah. What's interesting is when I first started gaining traction in my books, I only want to say I had like maybe 1000 followers and I was selling a lot of books and I was realizing it wasn't my social media following at the time. It was where I was starting to rank in Amazon's algorithm. So I was getting recommended with books that were that other people were buying.
00;59;59;04 - 01;00;19;29
Jennae
So at the time, a really popular one was Milk and Honey. That was an extremely popular book, I want to say. She put out her book maybe, maybe just six months before mine. So my book was getting recommended a lot with her when you'd go to purchase it, it'd be like, If you like this, you may also like I'm a huge wallflower.
01;00;20;01 - 01;00;48;03
Jennae
And so that was huge. And from from that came followers who found my book on Amazon and then came to my page here. And then from there I continued to use Instagram for marketing. But like you said at the time, it wasn't. That was 2016. That was when it was just starting to take off. I was like, people doing more on here than just sharing cute photos.
01;00;48;05 - 01;01;13;06
Jennae
It was becoming a place where, no, if I have a small business, I can share about it. And over time though, my following grew very slow like it was. I think I was. Maybe four years into being an author and I had about 10,000 followers, but was like making pretty good and consistent sales just based off of where I was ranking in Amazon.
01;01;13;08 - 01;01;42;21
Jennae
But then in 2020, so when the pandemic happened, I, I remember specifically, I did like I want to say like a 30 K giveaway or 20 K giveaway on Instagram for hitting that milestone. And all of a sudden when I was sharing my poems during that time, like they just started getting shared way more than usual and like, were being spread around a lot more than I was used to.
01;01;42;24 - 01;02;08;14
Jennae
And then come, I want to say, about June 2020, Jennifer Garner shared one of my poems to her Instagram feed, not just her story. It was like an in feed post. You can go back in time and oh yeah, it she take me in it. And I remember at first I thought it was just like a spam account, you know, because it's just like it's Jennifer.
01;02;08;16 - 01;02;33;05
Jennae
So I'm not thinking like she's reading my poetry. Yeah, and she just posted it. I remember. It's like my hand, Like it's me with my hand holding the the paper with my poem on it. And so many people came from that post. It was insane. I think I went from like 20 K to 60 in just a couple of months.
01;02;33;05 - 01;02;56;12
Jennae
And with that came so many book sales. And at the time I had just was about a month away from releasing my book The Sun Will Rise. And so we, which was a book that I wrote of a collection of poems that I gave to people during quarantine of part things they needed to hear during that time. And so the whole book is composed of poems that were custom for people.
01;02;56;14 - 01;03;25;20
Jennae
And that book just blew up like I was not expecting it to do as well as it was doing, because to be transparent, I was kind of in a lull in my career of I was doing well and my books were doing well, but I hadn't had a book to as amazing as my second book had done. And I felt like I was constantly trying to compete with that book and write a book that could could do just as well, if not better than that.
01;03;25;23 - 01;03;46;02
Jennae
That book did. And yeah, it was crazy because then that book as well blew up. It went sanity. And then from there my social media caught up and now I feel like it is in a place where I am getting sales because of my Instagram following. But I wouldn't. It was definitely not always that way.
01;03;46;05 - 01;04;06;18
Steph
Right? That's so interesting. And in our conversation you said that you've reached a place where you kind of feel like it's your it's good. Like you don't want to put a lot of extra effort into growing your audience and just allow it to organically evolve as it's going to. Is that a conscious decision that you kind of thought about, like, okay, I have enough now?
01;04;06;20 - 01;04;28;02
Jennae
Yeah, I mean, I'm always excuse me, I'm always welcoming in more people and I would love more people to read my work and find my words. But I do think for a while and anyone that's tried to grow a social media account would feel this is you're just trying to grow, grow, grow, grow, grow and get to a next place.
01;04;28;02 - 01;04;50;14
Jennae
And I just want to honor and serve the people that are already there interested in my work. So lately what I've been doing is sending out asking people once a month and my stories, you know, who needs a custom calling or who would like a poem about something like send me a message and trying to connect more with the people I have versus constantly seeking out new people.
01;04;50;14 - 01;05;17;15
Jennae
Because I have some people who have been with me the whole time or a lot of the time, and it's crazy to me that they've been able to see that whole journey and I just want to keep them in mind when I'm writing things and putting it out there and not always thinking like I'm like, Oh, well, with this person that's been here since 2016, enjoy this poem versus how can I constantly continue to seek out more people, right?
01;05;17;18 - 01;05;18;20
Jennae
Totally. I love.
01;05;18;20 - 01;05;39;00
Steph
That. I love that. Okay, so wrapping up a bit, how does it feel to actually be in your result of being a bestselling author impacting people like you wrote in your affirmations and in response to the prompt that your husband gave you, like you're really living and your result, how does that feel?
01;05;39;02 - 01;06;11;03
Jennae
Yeah, it feels really great. I, I don't know if I don't want to say I ever doubted being able to do this, but I will say when all the statistics and word like phrases you hear are against you about the success of being an author, and especially the success of being a self-published author. I mean, I recently just looked again to make sure I was accurate in this, but they said 90% of self-published books never sell more than 100 copies.
01;06;11;05 - 01;06;38;20
Jennae
And to me, I'm like the fact that most days I sell more than 100 copies, just like, really hits home with me and reminds me that, like, what I'm doing is special. And the fact that I'm able to do this and impact that many people and remember that every book sale is a person buying this and being impacted by words like it feels.
01;06;38;22 - 01;07;00;16
Jennae
I don't ever know if I thought I could get to this place where I was able to do this full time and have this be my full time career. But being a poet and writing books and being an author has just continued to open so many other doors that it's not just books that are helping me make an income.
01;07;00;16 - 01;07;12;14
Jennae
It's now it's a whole business. I have a whole identity and things beyond just writing now that I didn't even imagine I would have prior years prior.
01;07;12;16 - 01;07;23;28
Steph
And so what's that starting to look like? I know that you have you've done speaking engagements before, and so how do you want to evolve your business and your own personal brand?
01;07;24;00 - 01;07;40;17
Jennae
Yeah, I've done a lot of speaking engagements, which if you would have told me that in high school I absolutely hated public speaking, like I would get to the point where I would get myself so sick having to think about speaking in front of people. And so now the fact that I do that is just hilarious to me.
01;07;40;19 - 01;08;02;13
Jennae
But so speaking engagements, I've done a lot of different collaborations with brands I've worked with. I did one with like American Eagle and I did one with Canva and all of these people that I'm like, I wear that and I also use Canva. And I did one with like a, a company that they make what's it called? Little Photobooks.
01;08;02;13 - 01;08;27;10
Jennae
And I already was making photobooks with that company. I'm like, Wow, this is so wild. And just having those opportunities. And then starting to think about releasing books in different genres. I would love, absolutely love to write a children's book one day and have that be something that's a kind of like a poetic children's book. And that would be that's like a huge goal of mine.
01;08;27;10 - 01;08;53;09
Jennae
So I would say that's kind of what I'm leaning more towards now, especially after writing so many poetry books that are kind of the same for the same people. I would love to branch out and do something a little different, but I also just have endless ideas. I'm constantly thinking up things. My husband's the same way. We're both entrepreneurial mindset, so he'll just sit here and throw out ideas constantly.
01;08;53;12 - 01;09;13;18
Jennae
I have like prints. People can buy mugs, like just all sorts of different things. So it's been fun beyond just books, being able to turn this into like an actual business and totally I wouldn't have thought that was possible. I would if I just like, write my books and so incredible.
01;09;13;21 - 01;09;38;17
Steph
Okay, so my final question, it's two parter. The first is what's a resource that has impacted you along your journey? And then the other question is thinking back to that version of yourself, who didn't want to share with anybody that she wanted to be a writer and that you were self-publishing books, And what's a piece of advice that you have for somebody who maybe is in that place doesn't really have a lot of clarity of what this all could be?
01;09;38;21 - 01;09;46;29
Steph
This all could go and feels a little bit lost that has this thing that they love and wants to dedicate more energy to it.
01;09;47;01 - 01;10;17;28
Jennae
My main thing that's always just been by my side is just like, it sounds so simple and dumb, but just having a journal and notebook and the ability to about appreciate written word so and not always typing it on my computer or typing it on my phone. I feel like so many of my best poems have always come from keeping a journal close and not keeping a pen with me and always jotting down ideas.
01;10;17;28 - 01;10;43;28
Jennae
I just feel like that never. I just never want that to go away. Also, music. I am so impacted by hearing like lyrical words. Like if I can listen to like different albums and get inspired, like if I'm in a writer's block, like just hearing how because it is very similar. I mean, it's poetic. Like songs are very poetic.
01;10;43;28 - 01;11;20;19
Jennae
It goes hand in hands, which going off of what we just said, that's another thing I'm trying to get into his songwriting. Actually going back, listening to music is also just such a big thing for me. So I like as long as I have a notebook and some music, I can keep doing what I love. Yeah, I would just say like my biggest thing that I struggled with was I was already creating a narrative in a negative way that didn't exist and I wasn't allowed thing there to be a positive narration of what could go on.
01;11;20;19 - 01;11;43;13
Jennae
Like, I was just already saying, This isn't going to go right. Don't even try do this. Why would you even try to do this? And I wish I could go back and not waste so much time telling myself this is a waste of time. Why are you doing this? People are going to think your job. I just truly look back and I feel like I wasted, wasted time.
01;11;43;13 - 01;12;08;28
Jennae
I wasted the ability to impact more people because I was holding back so much. I wish I would have been more honest in my writing in certain aspects and not been so afraid to just be authentically who I am. And I just feel like even now, like I'm 29, going to be 30 is I feel like I'm just now coming into my own.
01;12;08;28 - 01;12;32;07
Jennae
Like I'm just now figuring out my style and what I like and obviously that comes with time. But I also think it just has come with the confidence boost I've given myself by saying it's okay to be unique and different and like different things and you want to stand out. I love that. Yeah.
01;12;32;09 - 01;12;47;25
Steph
Thank you so much. And I think you tell everyone where they can find you. Obviously, we know we can find your books on Amazon, but maybe which one should they start with? And then where can they find you on Instagram and TikTok?
01;12;47;28 - 01;13;11;18
Jennae
Yeah. So my Instagram and TikTok, it's all Jenny Cecilia. There's no right way to read them. There's no order. But I would say the sun will rise and slowly I feel like that's like a light read and very relatable. And everyone really enjoys one. And it's I feel like no matter what phase of life you're in, you could relate to a lot of the poems in it.
01;13;11;20 - 01;13;25;13
Steph
I love that. That's a great idea, too. For gifts. We're coming up on Christmas and like all of the love seasons and holidays, I see this is such good gift for the people in my life.
01;13;25;15 - 01;13;47;17
Jennae
Thank you. Yeah, and I try. That's what I try to price my books the way I price them. They're all priced extremely low like I have. No, I mean, I think my most expensive one is $11, and I just want them to be easily accessible to people using the gift. And I mean, like the perfect, perfect thing to give someone without spending a ton of money.
01;13;47;20 - 01;13;54;19
Jennae
But like, you can tell there's you can tell there is intention and impact there.
01;13;54;21 - 01;14;14;11
Steph
Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate your being here. One last thing before you go. It would mean the absolute world to me if you could tap those cute five little stars wherever you're listening. If you just click the show's name on your screen right now, it'll take you to the show's page where you can rate and review with your thoughts.
01;14;14;11 - 01;14;20;27
Steph
And it is a tremendous deal in the charts so that more people can join this community. I am so grateful.